[Transcript] Bill Morris President of Navicom

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Michael Jans: Hello everybody this is Michael Jans with Agency Revolution. We make it easy to automate your systems, engage your customers and grow your agency or brokerage. I want to welcome you to this episode of the Connected Insurance Podcast, where we examine the trends, innovations, challenges and solutions to the biggest problems facing retail agents and brokers today. I am very excited to be able to bring this conversation with my friend Bill Morris to you.
Navicom IncBill is the senior partner at Navicom and has executive responsibility for Navicom’s insurance business. Their goal is to help its clients, and in this case, that means brokers, understand customer decision-making and help them create differentiation and build competitive advantage.

He has been active in this business for over 20 years. The critical thing that I want to point about this conversation with Bill, and one of the reasons that I think that agents and brokers should listen to very, very carefully to what he has to say, is I think he has listened to– strategically and actively listened to more insurance consumers than anybody on the planet.

At the end of the conversation, I asked him, “How many insurance customers have you heard from?” And he said, “Hundreds of thousands.” So ultimately, our businesses is determined by our relationship with customers. Bill understands what insurance customers want in different generations. Without further ado, I’m excited to be able to introduce you to my very smart friend Bill Morris.

Hello, everybody, I’m really delighted to be able to bring to you a conversation with somebody I really respect in this industry as an insight on customer behavior. What customers think of brokers and agents, and why they buy insurance and what they’re looking for and changes. I’m thrilled to be able to introduce Bill Morris. Bill, thanks so much for joining us, how are you today?

Bill Morris: Michael, it is my pleasure. I am doing great, thank you very much. I’m very much looking forward to our chat today.

Michael: Let’s put a little bit perspective. You’ve had your eyes on this industry for a long time. Give us, if you would, a quick snapshot of what your history is in the industry.

Bill: Sure, we basically, I guess the easiest way to describe us in many ways is we’re sort of the voice of the customer. Primarily in Canada, but we’ve done some work in the US as well. But primarily through the broker intermediate channel. We’ve been taking the pulse of customer perspectives around their relationship, primarily, with brokers. But frankly, we’ve done work in all the different channels. The different directions, and for the better part of– hate to say it now because it’s making me an older guy, but we’ve been doing this for 25 odd years. So we’ve had a chance to watch some interesting changes.

Michael: Indeed you have. I want to sort of give full disclosure to the audience. You and I had an opportunity to chat. Bill and I have known each other and worked together for a bit while our presence has grown in Canada. We had an opportunity to chat. We were just talking about the fact that ultimately the consumer gets to choose. In this era, the consumers have more choices and it definitely appears that they are getting more choices than they’ve ever had before. Understanding what’s in the heart and the mind of the consumer, it seems to be one of the most important pieces of information that we can get. Bill, this is your business. As somebody who really pays close attention to our industry. Share with us what your research says about the customer? What does the customer think of the broker channel these days?

Bill: Well certainly, we have been seeing some pretty obvious trends over the period that we’ve been asking for their perceptions. There’s a little bit of bad news but followed by good news if you’re a broker. The bad news is that there has been a gradual decrease in overall customer engagement settlement for some time. Certainly, as long as we’ve been measuring, not to the point as it cost a lot of brokers. It’s not like there’s a huge amount of dissatisfaction but, in fact, not at all. For the most part, the satisfaction levels are strong. But the engagement levels, a degree to which customers are looking at their brokers as being sort of the only place they’d want to do business. That has been sliding away for quite some time. The good news is that trend would appear to have flattened over the last two years. There now has been a turnaround and we’re starting to actually see some brokers move that needle back up. But the overwhelming trend over a long period of time has been a decrease in customers settlement or an engagement around their broker relationship.

Michael: Do you think there was a day that brokers and customers were engaging each other more than they are now?

Bill: Without a doubt, Michael. I don’t think it’s a lot different in any of the markets around the world where brokers primarily brought their value to the market by being the experts. By providing choice and really having a very close in many cases, one on one, often face to face relationship with their customers. That was then. Let’s face it, these days that has changed dramatically both by, I guess to some degree, brokers are saying, necessity. They’ve got a lot more in their plate. Customers would also say, “Hey, the way we engage with many of our business providers is quite different today than what it would have been even 5-10 years ago.”

Michael: Fair enough. Does it seem fair, Bill, that on one hand, the economics don’t support the old-fashioned one on one conversations like perhaps they used to? Small commercial and personal lines, it’s tough, right?

Bill: Very much so. I think that’s been the biggest challenge for brokers is that they’ve been forced to provide sort of a more automated level of service around renewal and in many cases problem solving and what have you, their ability to reengage in the 21st century. Frankly, it’s been lagging a little bit. The good news is that there are some terrific alternatives and we’ll talk about that in a few minutes. Brokers, I think they want criticism and a lot of them would be the first to admit that it’s been slow to catch up in terms of how to reengage in the 21st century.

Michael: And then, on the other hand, it seems fair to say that the consumer of today doesn’t want the kind of engagement, the manner of engagement that we used to be used to. In other words– I read a report a couple of months ago and I’ve reported on this more than once. It was from a research company, I think it was M-Blocks. They indicated that 84% of today’s consumers don’t want phone calls from their insurance provider.

Bill: Well certainly, that’s a trend that we’re seeing. We’ve, in fact, just done some fairly recent research in the whole East side of the country, and not only are the kinds of communications, the way they want to communicate but, certainly, the kinds of topics that they want to communicate about are changing. It rates down even to the way that they want to access their information. That’s the other, probably, major point that needs to be made. It’s really through no fault of anybody in the insurance industry. But consumers, generally, have come to realize that there’s new technology. There’s new ways that they can service themselves when they want, how they want. And, indeed, in many cases probably led by the banks, this is technology that has been embraced hugely. We’re certainly seeing that in the world of insurance and to your point, I don’t really want to have to phone. I don’t want to have to leave a message. In many cases, I want to be able to get into my files myself, make some changes, and then have you certify them or acknowledge that everything is fine.

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Michael: Bill, let’s get into the juicy stuff. What does your research say that today’s consumer wants?

Bill: For sure, a little bit just a good segway from what we’re talking about. First and foremost, I think these days it’s just, make it easy for me to do business with you. This is really a big challenge for the insurance industry because in many cases there is– the broker still is between the customer and their policies and the insurance companies. We’re living increasingly in real time digital world and, certainly, insurance consumers expect to be able to get fast real-time service, pretty much 24/7 when they need it. The other part that I think that we need to be aware of is brokers need to do a much better job of demonstrating that they know who their customers are. This is the other huge trend that has been started in other industries. Where customers and consumers expect their service and product providers to know more about them, and that’s just becoming a norm. As an insurance broker, you need to make sure that your customers know that you know who they are. That you know what they want as their needs are changing based on age and demographics and other circumstances, brokers have to be on top of that and really lead it. That’s a huge key change for the industry as well.

Michael: All right, so things don’t stay the same. How do you see this evolving over the next two or three years?

Bill: Well again, these are great questions. Certainly, we see the trend towards more personal real-time service standards. That’s just going to continue to evolve and the service bars just keep moving higher all the time in many different industries. From that standpoint, the insurance industry really– they’ve got to catch up in many cases and then they’re going to have to start to move ahead and there’s certainly some examples now of companies that are really starting to work differently with different generations. Insurance is no different, the millennials, gen Ys, and gen Xs, even the boomers all have unique perspectives that brokers need to understand and then they have to influence and leverage appropriately.

Michael: What do you think or what do you see is the differences in consumer expectations or consumer desires between the generations? In particular, let’s say between the millennials, who are now buying a lot more insurance, and the Boomers?

Bill: Probably the biggest thing is, to some degree, what we’ve been talking about. Millennials pretty much do everything in real time and, at the end of the day if they can’t deal with their insurance in real time then it’s pretty much as show-stopper. They’re also hands on, they’re very much used to being able to manage their own affairs, see what’s going on and they make their decisions lightening fast, that’s the other big difference generationally is us boomers– and I’ll declare us being one, we tend to take more time to make a decision as the millenialsic] do it all lightening fast. In many cases, it doesn’t come as a big surprise but easy, self-served, real time, and personal, that’s millennial and that’s what you have to have for them.

Michael: Yes, all right. How is that distinctive– where do they overlap Boomers and millennials, and where do you think they’re different? It seems that the entire world is changing and all consumers are changing, and there’s suddenly plenty of evidence that shows that, virtually, every demographic is online and expect some digital elements to their relationship with their vendors. There’s some overlap and there’s some difference, where do you see that?

Bill: Let’s talk about the overlap because I think that’s one of the trends that we’re finding is quite interesting. Now that we’re starting to ask consumers and broker customers in particular, “What is it that’s relevant? What do you want to talk about?” It probably won’t come as a big surprise that the hot spots are in a couple of areas. One has to deal with assets that are being protected. As much as in the past for brokers, the focus has probably been more on the right insurance and if you had a claim we’re here for you. These days, what’s more relevant is, help me understand how I can make my assets perform better, things that might allow my homes to be safer, or might allow me actually do a better renovation, more information about buying a smarter or safer car, or one that will hold its value over time.

There seems to be fair bit of interest around more knowledge around the assets being protected and ongoing interest in terms of things that you can do to help me make the most of these assets. That’s certainly been a trend that we’re seeing. And then other one now is– maybe isn’t a surprise, but the idea that they’re more open now to brokers helping with risk mitigation. In other words, what can you do to help me make sure I never have a claim because the best claim is one that I don’t have. There is definitely some strong interest across all of the different generations in that area, as well.

Michael: All right, I’m going to ask you a question the answer for which you may not have and maybe you haven’t thought of it this way before, but there are a few things that you said that come together in my mind, all right? The millennial generation or the digital natives have grown up with access to an infinite amount of information and they’ve grown up with tools that allow them, as you said, to manage their own problems, solve their own problems in real time. Do you think that this is resulted in a desire or a proclivity among today’s consumers to be smarter consumers?

Bill: I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. There certainly is desire to be smarter, the danger, of course, is that there is access to so much information, but not all of it is necessarily correct and that’s really one of the key areas that you have to– I think all of us as consumer, and probably many of us have learnt the hard way, when we thought we were buying something, and we thought that what we thought we were buying isn’t what we actually bought. It’s one thing if it’s a new digital TV and you can recover from that, it’s another thing when you’ve had a serious claim and it turns out that what you thought you bought isn’t what you really bought and you’re all of a sudden out of pocket in a huge or big way. There is no doubt that the whole [unintelligible 00:15:39] of managing claims in the 21st century is changing. There’s a saying in the insurance world that says, “Water is the new fire.” And by that they mean there is fewer and fewer fire claims and more and more water damage claims-

Michael: Interesting.

Bill: – and that’s an area where brokers have been earning their keep and will continue to help customers understand that not all policies are created equal and that there is some learning that may need to happen.

Michael: All right. I put a couple of things together and I’m curious what your responses. On one hand, we have consumers who, I think, we’re saying, “If you can make me smarter I’m going to value you, if you’re going to give me real value, I’m going to appreciate that.” Yes?

Bill: Yes.

Michael: And then on other hand, I was reading a report yesterday from [unintelligible 00:16:28] and in that report he was saying– I think it was part of their global insurance album and they’d indicated that I think it was 44% of insurance consumers reported that they had no interaction with their insurance provider in the last 18 months. It seems to me that there’s a tremendous opportunity for an innovative agent or broker but there’s a tremendous threat to the channel as a whole. What do you think?

Bill: Yes, I’ve certainly heard similar numbers and, frankly, we’ve been seeing them in our own research for some period time that there is a disconnect. The huge opportunity here, Michael, really for insurance brokers is– interestingly enough, they typically know more about their customers than almost any other industry. And the opportunity to make their whole relationship, never mind the product but the service levels, more personal based on what they know about their customers is huge.

I really think that’s the huge opportunity is. First of all, you do have to connect but simply sending out an email or phoning without being properly prepared and without being able to position yourself and, hey, I know you have a vacation home, or I know that you recently had children or any number of things that are going on that will, typically, change somebody’s perspective on life in a lot of different ways. That’s information that they have, that they can capitalize on and in the best interest of their customer.

There’s so many opportunities to provide in some cases an improved product, in some cases a scaled down product because you don’t need the insurance that you might have needed a few years ago. They can help save money, they can help provide different types of coverage, but the number one opportunity is back to make it personal. You use what you learned, what you know about that customer and put that to work so that the customer goes, “oh, so I’m not just one of many, this person knows who I’m and they know how I’m different from the next guy.”

Michael: All right.

Bill: And use technology, which you’re very familiar with, to start to create that unique customer approach to every single customer.

Michael: Got it, I’ll share something else from that report that I thought was really insightful and a piece of good news for people that are listening. It was in that report, and I don’t remember the number, I think it was in the mid-’80s, that when a consumer was cross-sold, when they were encouraged or convinced to buying additional piece of policy they reported that as an overwhelmingly positive moment of truth. And I thought, “That should remove all the resistance people have to offering more policies to their existing customers” Right?

Bill: Yes, and certainly, all of our research, Michael, would absolutely confirm similar findings that the customers do more so than ever appreciate one-stop shopping, and the idea that if I can get everything from a single source, then it makes it just purely from the logistics and timing standpoint, but also anybody listening that understands insurances, he knows that there economies of scale associated with that. The degree to which the brokers, again, are aware that they may not have all the customers business and then start to position themselves to make sure that they can explain why it is worth their while.

Another huge opportunity, we know many brokers lament that there’s a lot of orphan customers out there, but they’re going to have to work harder at understanding why that is and what are we going to do to make it easier because it comes back to easier lifetime and saving money. Who doesn’t want all three of those things to be going on?

Michael: All right. When you look at the state of the industry right now, Bill, what do you think are the biggest opportunities that brokers and agents can capitalize on?

Bill: Well, I think really we’ve been talking a little bit around it here about it here but I’ll just sort of try and nail it down. First and foremost, it’s using technology any way that they can to make life, as far as insurance and being insured, goes easier. First and foremost, they want to use technology to make life easier for the customer, and there is more and more opportunities to do that, literally coming out every year. And then the idea of developing a much closer back tool, if you will. The old days of face to face, well fast forward you can’t afford to do that but you can use technology to develop a much more personal relationship. But they’ve got to use technology, digital communication tools to bridge what is frankly still too large of a gap, and the days of just selling an insurance policy and then kind of, we’re here if you need us, those days are gone.

We’re customers, we’re just far too expectant of regular touching, relevant touching, the know that that person’s there and that they’re continually looking out and doing what’s best for me and that’s the reality in other industries and, frankly, other distribution channels. Brokers have to be able to not only offer all of that but then they’ve got to step it up a bit and find ways to be a little different and a little better and, frankly, I’m seeing it happening every day so I know it can be done.

Michael: All right, let’s circle in on that one for a moment. You’ve got a lot of broker clients, so when you think of a success story about what you were talking about, adding value, being in relationships, touching clients and creating meaningful relationships. Tell us about a success story. You don’t necessarily have to name names but who do you think is doing it well and what does it look like, what does it feel like?

Bill: Well, certainly I think there’s a whole cadre of brokers and they’re not, necessarily, youngsters, although I think one thing they do all have in common they are tech-savvy, but they’re understanding that the front door of your brokerage is not on Main Street anymore, it’s digital and that’s how you’re going to find people.

The first thing they had to realize is if people find you, what they see needs to jump out and that needs to have the first positive impact, but the second thing is, as soon as they go, “Okay, I want more.” Then you need to be able to jump on that, and all sorts studies of have shown that if you get a digital request you need to be able to jump on that in a matter of seconds as opposed to minutes or hours. They become very agile at being able to get to these folks early, online typically, if not 24/7, getting close to it. And then it’s a question of being able to get very personal, very quickly, make it easy for the customer.

The days of filling out two and three-page application forms are long gone. They, literally, can ask a couple of key questions and in real time bring up all that they need to know to come back and say, “Yes, we can do that, we can provide what you need and we can give you.” And everybody wants to know how much. That all has to happen in a matter of, not necessarily seconds, but minutes, so that’s getting them, and then keeping them, Michael, is becoming very different as well. Break down to an onboarding process that feels very personal, very comfortable as opposed to setting up the policy again and saying, hey– in the mail, saying, “Call us.” Everything’s electronic, it’s coming and then the policy is here, and then here’s your support team, and here’s other key people in the organization, and then here’s some other things that we’re going to be doing for you or thinking about for you, right down to even things like birthdays and other key events. They’re using what they’ve learned and what they know about their customers to reach out and develop literally a custom communication pattern that starts being different by being hands on and then the idea of never hearing from us again, that just isn’t on, they just don’t let that happen.

Michael: Right on, okay. There’s a lot of information about their customers locked up in their agency or broker management system, isn’t it?

Bill: Kind of, and that’s probably one of the biggest challenges that they all have is timewise that information was really used strictly for internal purposes and it’s now the exact opposite where that information, more than ever, needs to be used for external managing of their customers and that just started to happen but I know that’s an area that you play a role in and it’s a powerful role.

Michael: Well, I think it’s transformative. I don’t think it’s an incremental change. I think that those systems are there and have been there for 20 or more years. It was absolutely essential for the transformation of the industry a generation ago, right, but they’ve become workhorses, they’ve become the necessary engine to run the business on day to day but to flip it from really purely an internal use to an external use is transformative and addresses some of the problems that you’re talking about. I want to ask you a little bit about what you do and what Navicom does. How do you work with brokers and how do you help solve this problem?

Bill: Well, it’s funny you use the word transformative and we would tell you that understanding in terms of statistically accurate reporting and customer perceptual feedback is transformative because it’s easy to say, “Well, no news is good news, and if there’s a real big problem I’m sure somebody would call.” But the reality is people don’t call. If there is a big problem maybe they do, but most of them just drift away.

What we do is, first and foremost, bring the voice of the customer right up front to the brokerage team, we do it not just in terms of the obvious key areas of performance, but we also provide a whole engagement perspective and, frankly, an engagement metric that can be used to compare themselves over time, but also against other brokers in the area. Once you have a sense of how engaged your customers are or, in many cases, are not, then you’ve got that benchmark, then it’s a question of, “Okay, if we’re not where do we want to be, now we have to start taking some actions to get there.”

Because we know what happens if customers are not engaged, it’s not a question of if, it’s just when they will, at some point, try something else also and that’s, obviously, not what brokers can afford to have happen. Once you know where you are, you take some steps and this is where some of the digital communication solutions that you bring to the party are a big part of that, and then you measure it. You watch it happen. You go, wow, we now can watch customers who basically said, “Yes, I hardly ever heard from my broker.” Year over year to target change that where they’re starting to say, “Now, I’m getting this attention, and information, and direction from my broker that’s relevant, that is making a difference.” And then you will see your engagement scores start to move, so it’s all about really having hard metrics in some key areas that you can look at, put on a dashboard if you want, and then work against and watch that needle move.

Michael: Typically Bill, what happens in business terms when you see the engagement score go up or get better. I’m assuming we measure that in terms of, I suppose, top line revenue. I’m not sure if you can increase number referrals but certainly policy per customer, account retention. What do you see happening when engagement scores go up?

Bill: Well, Certainly, the most critical long-term metrics that is always measured is retention and revenue, but that’s really rare. We’re looking here and that happens after the fact. But the beauty of the customer metrics that we put together, it’s actually forward looking, so by looking at the degree to which current customers would advocate are telling you, “Yes, you know what, I would give you all of my business.” As opposed to, “I’m not sure about that.” Our planning on renewing those kinds of stated intentions and then some overall engagement level questions. That’s really the radar scope that says as those numbers go up, then you basically can take it to the bank that your retention numbers go up as well. That’s the bottom line.

Michael: All right. Bill, before we wind up, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions. The first one is, I’m going to ask you to respond to a comment we hear periodically, our sales reps, for example, will hear this as an objection. To me, this strikes me as one of the most dangerous things that somebody could say in the insurance industry. I want to hear your response to this. Somebody actually said this, we may have heard this more than once but we hear it in different forms with some frequency where when we present our valued proposition that we make it easy to reach out to your customers, some people will say, “Whoa, we don’t want to do that, we don’t want to wake or poke the sleeping bear.”

Bill: Oh boy, oh boy. Yes, I have heard it myself and it’s frightening to think that in this day and age. And I guess it really comes back to– there’s always a presenter– whoever came up with the phrase, “Ignorance is bliss.” I guess is maybe what we’re talking about here. If you really don’t want to know what your customers are thinking, then, fair enough, you won’t–

Michael: You’re really not running a business, right?

Bill: You’re really not running a business and the numbers have spoken to themselves. Yes, you do hear it occasionally, but I have to tell you, Michael. That sentiment has largely started to go by the wayside. We’ve been–

Michael: Glad to hear it. I think so, I think so. I think people are–

Bill: And there’s not much of that left.

Michael: Okay. All right, we have a very, very big industry and a very, very old industry and, frankly, change is not new. I mean, one of the things you and I have spoken about more than once is the decline in market share for the broker channel in Canada. We’re really used to a fair manner of change but it seems that now a lot of people are saying that with the emergence of ensure tack and venture capital, both external and even internal of the industry, venture capital on investments and startups, and disruptures or transformers that the industry as a whole is perhaps vulnerable to some disruption. What do you think?

Bill: Well, that’s a word we hear a lot of these days. I was just actually at a very interesting executive insurance panel a couple of days ago, and of course, disruption was a big topic, and it always is these days. What’s really interesting to me is, for sure, there’s a little bit of catch up that needs to go on, and is going on right now in the insurance industry. But a lot things were hearing about the autonomous cars, sharing economy or what have you, they’re really just going to be the opportunities that will drive disruption.

The reality is, cars don’t need to be insured if they’re shared, it may be that the costs will defrayed but there’s a whole, sort of, different way of looking at all that. Same goes with shared domiciles and even the autonomous driving. I mean, the risk factors will decline in some areas and that will have a positive impact and some cases are being protected on premiums. But there are also going to change radically, and what happens when your autonomous car has a software glitch? It may not be one car, it could be a thousand or 10,000. That really just means that anybody in the insurance industry has to be awake and aware of the fact that things are going to change within the industry itself.

And it’s not so much what you’re insuring. The assets are still going to need to be insured, but how they get insured, and the kind of coverages is where a lot of disruption will start to come. And I really come back to feeling that brokers in many cases are hugely well-positioned to take advantage of the disruption that’s coming because in the meantime they can be cementing their relationship with customers in a way that says, hey, as this change comes and you start to go, “What does this mean when I have a car that has himself driving abilities, and can I save some money?”

And same goes with renting out that spare room in my house. “How does that all work?” Brokers have a huge opportunity to basically be at the leading edges of this disruption and bring it to the customers and say, “here is how– here’s what it means here, here is what we can do.” And really not run from it but embrace a lot of the change that’s coming. It’s going to be exciting and interesting, but still, I think great opportunity for successful business all the way along.

Michael: Okay. Bill, I have two last questions, both short. The first one is, you’ve been listening to insurance customers for a couple of decades now, how many did you think have spoken to you through your surveys or technologies?

Bill: Oh, Yes, many hundreds of thousands, we’re typically hearing from 15 or 20,000 a year, many thousands a month. It goes up and down a little bit, but hundreds of thousands by now.

Michael: That’s a very fair– here’s why I’m asking because if you look at Baines’ research, or Deloitte’s, typically, they’ll survey some tens of thousands but your numbers are very substantial. It gives a great deal of credibility to what you’re saying. Thank you for sharing that. Here’s my final question. If I was going to ask Bill Morris to say, deliver your statement, your command, your declarative statement to the broker channel, to the community. In 25 words or less?

Bill: It’s hard for me, but what would I say? I really think it does boil down to making sure your business is customer-centered, and no one would doubt for a second that brokers care deeply about their customers and they take their work seriously. But build your business around, making sure you understand what your customers are thinking and their perceptions today. Because they have changed and they will continue to change. And so my callout to brokers is, don’t assume that you have that information available, or that you’re hearing second hand. Take the time to develop the right kind of customer metric so you’re in the driver’s seat. You know at any given time exactly how could the job you’re doing engaging your customers, and you need to be able to know that the tools that you are using are in fact doing what they’re supposed to do. You don’t need to guess anymore the technology is there, it’s simple, it’s easy, it’s cheap, and the days of not knowing definitively how engaging your customers are and what you need to do to get them to where they need to be, those days are gone. It’s a very simple operation and that certainly we’re here to help any way that we can.

Michael: Let’s talk about that, if somebody wants to reach out to you and presumably you would take calls from carriers as well as agency brokers?

Bill: Absolutely, we do work directly with carriers, I think these days the simplest thing is send me an e-mail at bmorris@navicominc.com, that’s B-M-O-R-I-S@navicominc.com. That’s easiest way to get a hold of me and that way we can sort of show you what we’ve got, show you what we’re doing, and we can set up any number of ways of being able to see if we have a solution for bringing the customer, voice to the customer, back in your office.

Michael: Very good. I assume a lot of our listeners probably listened to us when were driving, so anybody can always reach out to me and I will put you in touch with Bill. Bill, I want to thank you very much for sharing your insights on what today’s customer’s thinking and feeling and how we can address that problem. Thank you, and everybody who joined us today, have a terrific day, love you all, God bless each and everyone, and I look forward to talking to you again in our next Connected Insurance Podcast.

Bill: And thank you, Michael, really appreciate the opportunity of talking to you today.

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